tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5506003065843965231.post6350388922807218575..comments2022-12-11T02:07:29.510-08:00Comments on Magisterial Fundies: Mary's Bones IV: When Science Jumps The FenceRick DeLanohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06675522207482535734noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5506003065843965231.post-58038971471725814642012-02-16T22:29:00.423-08:002012-02-16T22:29:00.423-08:00I should add, of course, that the steady-state the...I should add, of course, that the steady-state theory is falsified on metaphysical grounds:<br /><br />No infinitely existing universe could have begun to exist, therefore cannot exhibit motion, since it cannot have had a First Cause to set it into motion in the first place.<br /><br />But it is certainly not falsifiable on scientific grounds.<br /><br />Aquinas points to the difference between infinity "per se" and infinity "per accidens".<br /><br />Granted this distinction, the steady-state universe is unfalsifiable on scientific grounds.<br /><br />But it is falsifiable (has been falsified above) on metaphysical grounds.Rick DeLanohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06675522207482535734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5506003065843965231.post-40432100785255459722012-02-16T17:10:07.675-08:002012-02-16T17:10:07.675-08:00I should have said "experimentally falsifiabl...I should have said "experimentally falsifiable".<br /><br />It does not seem to me that the steady-state universe theory is in any way falsified by the hydrogen-helium ratio. All that is necessary is for the steady- state theorist to propose (as they do) the ongoing creation of new matter, which they propose to be occurring all the time, in the ejection of quasars from galaxy cores (Arp, Burbridge).Rick DeLanohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06675522207482535734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5506003065843965231.post-44808299875432846962012-02-16T10:43:17.158-08:002012-02-16T10:43:17.158-08:00Metaphysics cannot be falsifiable. Metaphysics can...<i>Metaphysics cannot be falsifiable. Metaphysics can only be true, or false.</i><br /><br />St Thomas Aquinas sure thought false metaphysics, like Averroism and Atheism, were falsifiable as well as false. And the atheist metaphysics of a universe existing ab æterno was falsified through hydrogen-helium ratio not being all helium but so far more hydrogen than helium (Dom Stanley Jaki, cited in Unwanted Priest, Fr Bryan Houghton).<br /><br />Did you get that other view from Kant?<br /><br />Either way, you <a href="http://creavsevolu.blogspot.com/2012/02/man-not-at-all-prejudiced-against-god.html" rel="nofollow">might enjoy</a> <a href="http://creavsevolu.blogspot.com/2012/02/further-to-geoscience-major-at-texas.html" rel="nofollow">these few</a> <a href="http://creavsevolu.blogspot.com/2012/02/lost-in-translation.html" rel="nofollow">essays of mine.</a>Hans Georg Lundahlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01055583255516264955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5506003065843965231.post-15238227321251765412012-02-15T06:41:35.530-08:002012-02-15T06:41:35.530-08:00I can understand, and even live with, a certain (e...I can understand, and even live with, a certain (even significant} amount of such shenanigans as you suggest above, Tracy.<br /><br />Science is a human endeavor and pride and greed are certainly present in it.<br /><br />But science has achieved its miracles, and its status among the populace at large, because of its most powerful, constitutive methodological commitment:<br /><br />Falsifiability.<br /><br />One can discover scientific principles actually operative in the determination of actual phenomena even if one denies God.<br /><br />But one can never discover metaphysical truth if one denies God.<br /><br />The thread has degenerated into an ugly insight into the unfalisifiability of evolution.<br /><br />If the theory is challenged on empirical grounds, the theory will be redefined so as to remove the basis for the challenge.<br /><br />If the theory is challenged on metaphysical grounds, "scientific evidence" will be advanced in its defense.<br /><br />But since the theory refuses to proceed in a scientific manner when presented with Mary's Bones- a true, Red Dot anomaly- we can see that it is actually metaphysical, not scientific, in nature- at least at this point.<br /><br />No real test of then theory will be permitted.<br /><br />Any challenge to the theory will result in a claim that the theory doesn't really mean what it means, or that the test doesn't really test the theory, or that even if it does there is so much other evidence.........<br /><br />Metaphysics.<br /><br />What a drastic mistake has been made in deciding to engage this powerful new metaphysics as if it were science.......<br /><br />What we see instead is a new worldview- a profoundly atheist, savagely anti-Catholic metaphysics- which has arisen with the meek acquiescence of the Church.<br /><br />It is now turning on us.<br /><br />Where are the bishops who will confront this new metaphysics?<br /><br />Negotiating conscience exemptions with its political representatives in Washington DC?Rick DeLanohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06675522207482535734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5506003065843965231.post-53313620969957644082012-02-14T07:39:57.142-08:002012-02-14T07:39:57.142-08:00It's ego too. No one would dare admit anything...It's ego too. No one would dare admit anything contrary to Darwinian evolution because they wouldn't get funding and popularity, or they'd get scorned. It's not about a search for truth. It's about, "Hey dig me!" The metaphysical guiding principle is not even Darwinism so much as, in all areas of science, all about the self and not about knowledge. The fall of man.<br /><br />Just a thought, I've noticed it for a long time. Some people may disagree but when I read science journals these days, I wonder, "Now what was the point of that?" or "I wonder is anyone could ever reproduce those results? Probably not." It's all just, publish or perish. Publish what will sell.Stacy Trasancoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14638075878905614981noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5506003065843965231.post-48100930705518050572012-02-13T19:52:49.187-08:002012-02-13T19:52:49.187-08:00It's been a really interesting experience, I c...It's been a really interesting experience, I can tell you :-)<br /><br />I have learned a great deal.<br /><br />I hope to summarize it into a final examination of the visit soon.<br /><br />I think it presents us with a valid hypothesis that raises a whole lot of questions.<br /><br />If the Darwinian theory is now the subject of a metaphysical, as opposed to scientific, research program, then it is highly predictable that no evidence of any kind could ever, even in theory, ever falsify it.<br /><br />Any evidence with the potential to falsify it would simply be researched along lines that would support the theory, and never along lines which wouldn't.<br /><br />It is highly predictable that any such research program will yield "overwhelmingly consilient" results.<br /><br />Obviously.Rick DeLanohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06675522207482535734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5506003065843965231.post-38841413783807387522012-02-13T18:12:52.348-08:002012-02-13T18:12:52.348-08:00I wondered what you'd been doing. Goodness, I ...I wondered what you'd been doing. Goodness, I read through some of that and I don't know how you do it. Even if those not-very-nice strange trolly-looking icon commenters don't seem to get it, well, plenty of readers do. You make your points so clearly. They blah, blah, blah, nuh-uh, nuh-uh, a few high fives and uh-huhs, and then they ask you the same questions over and over again. Haha.<br /><br />And you answer. And answer. And answer.<br /><br />You are a real teacher.Stacy Trasancoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14638075878905614981noreply@blogger.com